Interview FriendsWithYou｜个展「Ocean-寺of the Sacred Heart」

——2002年开始的FriendsWithYou,是怎么开始的呢?

在SAM 90年代,我们通过朋友相遇,成立了FriendsWithYou作为交流艺术活动。开始,是体现了雷人场景的主要信条——PLUR(和平、爱、统一、尊敬的略称),对我们来说是嘻哈运动。从一开始就想创造出适合现代的精神状态。另外,正如亚历山大·霍德罗夫斯基所产生的“赛科魔术”这一新词一样,创作的中心也存在着将艺术作为治疗工具的创意。我希望宇宙的力量能成为我们的伙伴,在宇宙的全部都是FriendsWithYou的想法下,我们以创造出一个能与逼近的孤独格斗的治愈艺术为目标。

从TURY开始的23年间,我们现在一起活动着。最初是从共同画绘画开始的,但是因为还没有明确的方法论,所以开始制作作为布偶销售的软件模型。而且,我知道这些蕴藏着激发主人可能性的魔法力量。

——FriendsWithYou在创作作品中最重要的想法是什么?

TURY我们所做的事情的有趣之处是,使用像年幼孩子一样的表现造型和方法,传达更深的信息。说到作为艺术家的立场,就是不放弃像孩子一样惊讶的感觉,从世界各地获得灵感。正因为如此,为了作为社会一员发挥作用,对于人生不能让人惊讶或兴奋的想法,我总是反抗。原本是作为自己生活中的应对方法一直很重视的,但是我想把它分享给社会。就算反复无常、快乐、兴奋地想玩,一整天都很兴奋。

在SAM佛罗里达长大的我度过了一个粗暴的童年时代,TURY也有很多逆境,两个都不得不在14岁离开家。因此,不得不比别人早长大。所以,现在即使长大后,也会留下很多空间,玩、做梦、看蓝天思考、成为别人的榜样的空间。游戏是神圣的东西,像孩子一样惊讶和梦想是自由的,我们相信每个人都有很大的梦想,所以把爱、希望、好奇心、游戏作为所有作品的主要因素来吸收。

——请告诉我小时候的事情。关于最初体验创造喜悦的记忆。

虽然SAM粗暴粗暴,但我觉得他是个坚强的孩子。到处都是纠纷,经常被卷入各种各样的事情中。自己长大的佛罗里达,简直就像威廉·终点“苍蝇之王”一样的沼泽地。黑暗,拼命地活着。这和作为爱和和平的战士而活动的我们的生活形成鲜明对比呢(笑)。那个时候,我自己也是个谜,用工具和球棒弄坏玩具,用半夜拿着的灯泡的热把它们溶解出来,制作出奇妙的塑料块。

TURY小时候的记忆最鲜明的是,在自己长大的古巴和哥哥一起创作的。使用在后院发现的东西制作精致的构造物,以此为基础展开了关于布雷格的故事。

——个展“Ocean-寺庙of the Sacred Heart”以想象中的神话“Ocean”为主题的新绘画和雕刻为焦点。是从什么想法中诞生的?

SAM“Ocean”是一种一系列神话,表达了新自然主义想法的一系列神话,旨在使人们、自己以及与生存的地球关系更加亲密。这个概念是从想创造一个能够说明我们至今为止做过的事情的、将人们结合起来的新神话而产生的。也就是说,所有的宗教、各国都抛弃了以前的想法,让人们回到自己身上,让作为母亲的自然和起源的神回归,将开始的宗教改编成现代风格。说起来,我们是从海里来的,几乎都是海水成分形成的,有着像波浪一样鼓动的心脏。

将TURY地球的名字改为“Ocean”,将我们居住的地方称为地球的历史改写。我觉得现代的历史比起自然,更注重人类。原本地球是蓝色的,茶色行星是不存在的。同样,我想在比自己更存在的生态系统中,提出符合伦理的新框架的神话。为了重新审视我们现在所在的地方和未来,与其说是把自然作为整体来看待,不如说是回到恐怖主义的想法上,包含着想要重新调整人类的力量和动力的想法。

——FriendsWithYou的主题和作品中流动的动漫,在以亚洲为首的日本也是自古以来渗透的思想,有没有受到亚洲文化影响的部分呢?

SAM动漫主义,也就是说所有的东西都有灵魂的想法,在宇宙成为你的伙伴的我们的主要想法、所有作品主题的中心,我非常喜欢用这个创意来玩。而且,日本对我们来说是一个很大的灵感。使用象征和角色来唤起感情,启发人们的方法是我们作品创作的核心。

虽然受到了TURY的深深影响,但是关于动漫主义,母亲在古巴实践的西非宗教、自然现象等动漫主义,非常原始信仰体系的约巴教的影响。

——两位没有分担角色,而是按照文字一起制作作品的,最初的一步是什么呢?

既有从TURY对话开始的,也有一起坐着开始画画的。实际对话和视觉交流都在进行。比如说,“你读过这个神话吗?”对于共享各自的想法,一起混合创意的创造浪潮,习惯亲近是非常棒的事情,共同作业非常有趣。正是两个人潜水到海里,看着流到哪里的感觉。

SAM两个人都有不枯萎的灵感之泉(笑)。有时会把读神话、看艺术、人生中经历过的事情、冥想、实验、研究中得到的想法等带入作品中。和自己一样强大的艺术家一起工作,就能实现还没有完全成形的想法和理想。一起做的话,既能创造出魔法般的短语,也能最大限度地表现自己心中的东西,或者用意想不到的方法将梦想具体化,我觉得非常棒。

——顺便说一下,你知道怎么完成的呢?　意见也有分歧吗?

SAM两人都能接受的时间就是完成的瞬间。如果不认为我们喜欢的话,就无法送到世界各地。常常遇到只有我们无法理解的困难状况。那个时候,互相拿出意见,推进想法,把那个变成形式。总是有各种各样的想法在漩涡中,像这样作为一个美丽的展示完成,真的是令人兴奋的冒险啊。

当然会讨论TURY对于自己来说是否有价值的表达方式。正因为有热情,有时也会感情用事。但是,花了23年的时间,我切实感受到,找到了更加积极地互相尊重对方的意见,构筑新事物的协商方法。

——失去自信,撞到墙壁的时候,是怎么跨越的呢?

表现出TURY的姿态,努力。我认为这是最简单的应对方法之一。然后,需要适应失败和不完美的状态。致力于一般的方向,只是每天向前看,展现身影,竭尽全力,淋浴,吃饭,工作结束,再做到顺利为止。带着信念致力于创意,与大的想法紧密相连。所以,我认为失败这一概念是不存在的。我认为在失败之前能得到知识,所有的相互作用都有价值。

SAM我们总是不想让事物完美。粗暴的部分、丑陋的部分、时而有人情味、不可思议才是美丽的。随着事物数字化,变得完美美丽,人们就会被脏污、粗糙的部分、丑陋的瞬间所吸引。

——你们两位是如何定义艺术的?

在TURY人类的活动中,表现出不可否认地流入的东西的行为。

作为SAM创意和创造物被提示的人类生存的对话。

——为了自由而不偏颇的表达,必要的是什么?

SAM不要害怕,从心底创造。

TURY失败的意志。

——沉浸型装置、游行、雕刻、绘画、动画、演唱会表演、以及与品牌合作等,涉及多方面的领域、种类、方法进行表现活动的理由是什么?

为了制作TURY强大的艺术,作为艺术家必须一个人呆在摄影棚里,这样的想法是过去的。为了创造现代、未来的新艺术,需要更加强大的智囊团。所以,把艺术家、工程师、哲学家以及其他合作者卷入其中的想法,对于一直两个人合作的我们来说,是自然而易做的形式。另外,我认为solo艺人是唯一创造出优秀艺术的存在,这种想法也就像神话一样了。

从SAM精细艺术的世界,从小孩子到学术界的人,单纯的人,都有想接触所有的人。无论是谁的想法还是梦想,都是欢迎的。各种各样的作品都是和不同场所的人相遇的工具。即使没有直接合作,参加我们社区的人们也同样对艺术多样化、进一步进化感兴趣。而且,我们的故事都有一种团结的羁绊,让我们的故事全部恢复力量。这才是“Ocean”想法的源泉。我们不仅是故事的创造者,也是故事中的艺术家。并且,创造新的世界,行星的是所有艺术家,是我们的故事。艺术家有创意,那个想法也有力量。所以,我相信只要我们齐心协力,就能制作出充满力量的东西。

——实际体验了PARCO MUSIUM TOKYO的展览会的感想怎么样?

TURY期待以上。真的是一个非常有趣的空间。我们想要传达的,在这个世界上是没有意义的,但是确实是这个世界上的东西,在某种神秘的另一个时空中,这样的感觉能够传达出来,我感到非常幸福。我们经常想要创造的是留下回忆的体验,但是我坚信这次展览一定会带来它的。

SAM近年来的作品聚集在这个空间里,能遇到美丽体验的地方真的很开心。亲眼目睹了各自蕴含的想法、想法,以及为了创造出这些所需要的一切,以及它成为一体所产生的力量和感动,心中充满了喜悦和爱。

——观看的人们有什么反馈会很开心吗?

体验过TURY艺术的人们的反馈非常有趣。对于我们来说,艺术几乎都是实验,一边尝试想法,一边观察人们是怎么想的,如何产生共鸣,如何影响心灵。所以,如果有反馈的话,可以更加注意那个是什么样的东西。着眼于人们如何与艺术接触,实际上占据了我们艺术的一大部分。有句话叫“关系性美学”,鉴赏者来到PARCO MUSIUM TOKYO,通过与作品对话而产生的体验才是我们真正思考的真正艺术。

SAM对。我们在网上也有投稿,但是看不到那个的人实际上是怎么想的。所以,当人们亲眼看到艺术,他们真的体验了艺术,感受到了什么东西的时候总是很开心的。好的事,坏的事,丑陋的事,什么感情都是最好的反馈。

——这次展览时,涩谷PARCO对你的印象是?

非常喜欢SAM东京和涩谷象征性地标PARCO!　能让大家体验我们艺术的机会,我感到非常高兴,也非常感谢大家对我们的智慧、亲切、支持我们的NANZUKA和他们的家人。

从TURY更新前就来玩过好几次了。在画廊和博物馆里也看到了很多精彩的作品。PARCO经常能证明产品需要艺术和设计,是一个充满刺激的地方。

——这次来日本,打算怎样度过东京呢?

融入TURY东京这个城市,享受在这个地方的乐趣,吃很多好吃的东西,也想去美术馆。对于来自地球另一边的国家的我们来说,知道有什么样的文化动向,既刺激又有趣。

我想去SAM前几天去世的田名网敬一先生的大规模个展“田名网敬一记忆的冒险”。见到他真的很高兴,很喜欢他。森美术馆的“路易斯·布鲁乔瓦展:虽然说是从地狱回来的地方说的,但是太棒了”也预定去。这次从洛杉矶来了很多作为同志的朋友,如果能和他们一起看各种乐趣的话我会很开心的。日本有很多好吃的、烧卖的东西,还想接触日本文化,获得灵感。

FriendsWithYou, an art collective based in Los Angeles. Spreading their unifying message of 'Magic,' 'Luck,' and 'Friendship,' they have been creating interactive art that fosters new human connections. Their solo exhibition 'Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart' was held at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO.

In this exhibition, they’ve created a fictional myth called 'The Book of OCEAN,' which commemorates the heroes who devoted their lives to the algorithmic war to liberate humans from the various devices that control us and return us to nature. Beneath the pop, KAWAII, and playful world they show lies a message: to remind us of Earth’s original form as a planet of oceans and to unite all living beings that inhabit it. Samuel Albert Borkson (referred to as SAM), born in Florida, and Arturo Sandoval III (referred to as TURY), born in Cuba, discuss their works that are completed through the experience of the viewers.

——Since FriendsWithYou started in 2002, could you share how the two of you met and how your collaboration began?

SAM We met through friends by going to raves in the 90s and founded FriendsWithYou as a conceptual art movement. In the beginning, it was kind of our hippie movement that epitomized the main tenets of the rave scene, PLUR: peace, love, unity, respect. We wanted to create new modes of spirituality for modern times. The idea of using art as a tool for healing, as in the term“psychomagic”coined by Alejandro Jodorowsky, has also been central to our creative process. We invoked the power of the universe to be conspiring in our favor and with the idea that everything in the universe is FriendsWithYou. And our goal was to battle the looming isolation we felt by creating healing art.

TURY Twenty-three years have passed since then and we are still working together. We started out by collaboration on paintings, but we didn’t yet have a clear methodology, so we began making soft sculptures, which we sold as plush toys. Then we discovered that those were in turn imbued with magical powers as a way of helping the owners manifest their own potential.

——What do you value in the creation of your work?

TURY I think one of the things that makes our work interesting is to use childlike figuration and mannerism to communicate deeper messages. Our stance as artists is that we don't let go of the child's wonder and to be inspired by the world. We’ve always resisted the notion that to be a functional member of society, you must not have your sense of wonder and excitement about life. It is something important that we have always tried to hold onto as our own way of coping with our existence and we want to bring it to the world, that it's okay to feel whimsy, happy, excited, wanting to play and being thrilled all day long.

SAM Growing up in Florida, I had a pretty rough childhood and TURY also had a lot of adversity and both of us had to leave home at the age of14. As young kids, we had to grow up quicker than others. Maybe that's why, now, in our adult life, we have left a lot of space to play, dreaming, looking at the blue sky, and thinking, something that can be examples and models for the rest of the world. We believe that play is holy, that wonder and dreaming like children is freedom, and that everyone has a huge dream inside of them, so we incorporate love, hope, curiosity, and play as the main ingredients of every artwork.

——Please tell us a little about each of your childhoods and also about your first memory of experiencing the joy of creation?

SAM I think I was pretty violent, but I was tough. There was a lot of trouble, always involved in all sorts of them. I grew up in Florida, which was kind of a swamp, like William Golding's“Lord of the Flies”. It was dark time and I was just trying to survive. It's a stark contrast to our lives today, where we are active warriors for love and peace. In those days, strangely enough, I would break toys with tools and bats and melt them together with the heat of a light bulb I had in the middle of the night to make strange plastic blobs.

TURY The most vivid childhood memories of creation were with my brother in Cuba, where I was raised. We would build these elaborate constructions in the backyard with found objects and developed an entire story line about the bricolages.

——Your solo exhibition“Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart”focuses on new paintings and sculptures based on the imaginary myth“Ocean”. Could you tell us about the ideas that inspired these works and how they developed?

SAM“Ocean”is a series of myths that represent a neo-naturalistic idea to bring people closer to their relationship with themselves and our living planet. The idea of“Ocean”came from us with a desire to create a new mythology that would unite people in a way that would explain what we have been doing the whole time. In other words, we are putting a modern spin on the origins of religion, focusing on beginnings, which is to throw out all previous ideas from all religions and countries and bring humans back to ourselves, back to Mother Nature and the gods of our origin. To begin with, we come from the sea, we are mostly made of seawater, and we have a heart that beats like a wave.

TURY It is also an effort to correct and rewrite the history of calling the earth we live on to“Ocean”. I feel that modern history prioritizes humans over nature. In the first place, the earth is blue, and there was never a brown planet, was there? In the same way, we wanted to present the myth of a new framework that aligns with our ethics in an ecosystem that goes beyond its current understanding. In order to rethink where we are and what the future holds, we wanted to return to a more holistic view of nature as a whole and realign human power dynamics with the planet.

——Animism, a theme that runs through FriendsWithYou's work, seems to resonate with Asian culture, including Japan. How do you think this culture has influenced you both?

SAM It has been a huge inspiration—the idea of animism, that everything has a soul and that the universe is acting in your favor, is at the heart of our main idea, the core of all our work, and we love playing with this idea. Japan has also been a great inspiration to us. Using symbols and characters to evoke emotions and inspire people is at the core of what we do.

TURY Although deeply influenced, when it comes to animism, I am very much influenced by Yoruba religion of West Africa, which my mother practiced in Cuba, and a very primitive belief system rooted in an animistic view of natural phenomenon, etc.

——The two of you literally work together on a piece of art without sharing roles, what is the first step like?

TURY Sometimes it starts with a conversation, other times we sit down and start drawing. We communicate both verbally and visually. We share references and ask each other, for example,“Have you heard about this myth?”And so on. It is amazing to get so comfortable with our creative wave of sharing each idea and remixing ideas together, and the collaborative process is very interesting. It is exactly the feeling of jumping into the ocean and seeing where the currents take you.

SAM Yes, it is. We both come with very fertile spring of inspiration. Each of us may bring to the work new myths we have read, art we have seen, experiences we have had in life, thoughts we have had from meditation, from experiments and research, etc. Working with another artist as powerful as myself allows me to realize ideas and visions that aren’t fully formed. It is wonderful that together, we can create new magical phrases and bring out the fullest expression of what’s inside us, often manifesting dreams in unexpected ways.

——By the way, how do you know the work is finished? Do you sometimes have disagreements?

SAM When we both like it because we both have to love it for it to go out into the world. Sometimes we run into difficult situations that we can’t figure it out on our own. In those cases, we push each other sharing ideas and mold them. So it's always an exciting adventure to see all the different ideas swirl together to create this beautiful show.

TURY Of course there are arguments where we try to express what is valuable to us. Sometimes we get emotional because we're passionate about it. But I feel that over the course of 23 years, we have found a way to talk about things in a more positive and mutually respectful way that builds something new.

——When you have lost confidence or hit a wall, how have you overcome it?

TURY I feel like showing up and trying is the one of the easiest ways to deal with that. And you have to get comfortable with failing and not being perfect. We are committed to a general direction: just be positive every day, show up, do your best, shower, eat dinner, work out, and try again until it works out. Having faith in the commitment to an idea leads to bigger ideas. That's why I don't believe in the concept of failure. We gain knowledge beyond failure, and we see value in every interaction.

SAM We don't always try to make things perfect. Because there is beauty in rough edges, ugliness, sometimes in humanity, and in strangeness. As things become more digitized, perfect, and beautiful, I think people will be attracted to things that are messy, have rough edges, and show moments of ugliness.

——How do you define art?

TURY Any human activity that channels what is undeniable to our will.

SAM Living dialogue of humanity presented as these ideas and creations.

——What do you believe is necessary for free and unbiased artistic expression?

SAM Just create from your heart with no fear!

TURY The will to fail.

——Why you work in a wide variety of fields, genres, and methods, including immersive installations, parades, sculptures, paintings, animations, live performances, and collaborations with brands?

TURY I have always thought that the idea that to make powerful art, an artist must be alone in the studio is outdated. In order to create truly modern and futuristic art, you need an even more powerful brain. So the idea of involving other artists, engineers, philosophers, and other collaborators was being a natural and doable form for us, as we have always collaborated together. I also think that the idea that artist as a solo are the only ones who create great art is also now a bit of a myth.

SAM We want to touch the whole world from the fine art to everyone, from small children, to the most academics, to the most humble or simple people.". Everyone is welcome into our ideas and dreams. So different types of works reach people in different ways. Even if we are not collaborating directly, those who join our community are equally interested in diversifying and pushing further their art works. And there is a unifying thread that return the power to all of our stories. That is a big part of the idea for“Ocean”. We are not only creators, we are artists inside of the story. And it is all artist and our stories that creates a new world, a new planet. Artists have ideas, and those ideas have power. So I believe that if we work together we can make something really powerful.

——How was the experience of your solo exhibition at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO?

TURY Super excited this looks amazing it's beyond our expectations. It’s beyond our expectations and a truly magical space. I felt the ethereal other time and space, which doesn't make sense in this world, but it definitely is of this world, that feeling wanted to convey. We always aim for creating a memorable experience, and we are confident that this exhibition will definitely bring that.

SAM I am so happy to be able to be see this space where all of our works from the past few years come together to becoming a beautiful experience. I'm so proud of us and what we've made and when I see it together and witness the power, all the ideas and feelings that go into each piece and all that it takes for us to create it, it really fills me with joy and love.

——What do you think is the best feedback from the people who view your work?

TURY We always find it fascinating to hear how people experience our art. For us, art is almost like an experiment, trying out ideas and seeing how people feel, how they relate to it, how it sits with them. So when we get feedback, we can pay even more attention to what it looks like. Focusing on how people interact with art is a huge part of our art. There is a term called“relational aesthetics,”and we think real art is an actual experience created when viewers come to PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO and interact with the artwork.

SAM Yeah. We post our works online, but we cannot know how the people who see them actually experience. So it is always nice when people who see our art and experience them express to us what they feel. The good, the bad, the ugly, any emotion is the best feedback.

——What impressions do you have of Shibuya PARCO?

SAM We love PARCO, a definitive landmark of Tokyo and Shibuya! We are so happy about the opportunity for people to get experience our art here and we are also very grateful to NANZUKA family who are amazingly smart, kind and supportive of us.

TURY We have visited PARCO so many times even before it’s renewal. I have seen many great works in the galleries and museums, and PARCO has always been an inspiring place that proves that products need art and design, and encourages the creation of such.

——Do you have any anecdotes about this trip to Japan?

TURY I plan to blend in with the city of Tokyo, enjoy being here, eat lots of good food, and visit museums. For those of us who come from countries on opposite sides of the world, it is very exciting and interesting to know how the culture operates.

SAM We are planning to go to“Keiichi Tanaami: Adventure of Memory,”a large-scale solo exhibition by Keiichi Tanaami, who recently passed away. We were really happy to meet him and loved him so much. We also thinking about going to“Louise Bourgeois: I have been to hell and back. And let me tell you, it was wonderful”at the Mori Art Museum. This time many of our friends came from L.A., so we will hang along and show them new things. We will enjoy delicious foods in Japan, and hope to be inspired again by its culture.