Interview FriendsWithYou｜个人展“Ocean-Temple of the Sacred Heart”

——FriendsWithYou始于2002年,是如何开始的呢?

在SAM 90年代,我们通过强奸的朋友相遇,并建立了FriendsWithYou作为概念艺术运动。开始就像我们的嬉皮运动一样,体现了雷夫场景的主要信条——PLUR(和平、爱、统一和尊重)。从一开始,我就想重新创造适合现代的精神生活方式。另外,正如亚历杭德罗·霍德罗夫斯基所创造的“精神魔术”这个新词一样,将艺术作为治疗工具的想法也是创作的中心。我希望宇宙的力量能成为我们的伙伴,在宇宙的一切都是FriendsWithYou的想法下,我的目标是创造一个能够与逼近的孤独格斗的治愈艺术。

TURY接下来的23年里,我们仍然在一起活动。最初是从共同描绘绘画开始的,但是因为还没有明确的方法论,所以开始制作作为布娃娃销售的软式骷髅。然后,我知道了那些为了引出主人的可能性而存在的魔法力量。

——FriendsWithYou在创作作品时最重要的想法是什么?

TURY我认为我们所做的事情的乐趣之一是,使用像小孩子一样的表现形式和方法,传达更深的信息。作为艺术家的立场是,不放手像孩子一样惊讶的感觉,而是从世界中获得灵感。正因为如此,为了作为社会的一员发挥作用,对于人生不能感到惊讶和兴奋的想法,我一直在抵抗。原本作为自己生活中的应对方法一直很重要,但是我想把它分享给社会。即使想反复无常、快乐、兴奋地玩,一整天都兴奋不已也可以。

我在SAM佛罗里达长大,度过了一个荒唐的童年,TURY也遇到了许多逆境,两者都不得不在14岁时离开家。因此,我必须比别人早长大。所以,现在长大后,也会玩、做梦、看蓝天思考,作为别人的榜样,为了能成为模范,留下了很多空间吧。游戏是神圣的,像孩子一样惊讶和梦想是自由的,因为我们相信每个人都有一个伟大的梦想,所以我们把爱、希望、好奇心和游戏作为所有作品的主要元素。

——请告诉我每个孩子时期的事情。关于第一次体验到创造的喜悦的记忆。

虽然SAM粗暴粗暴粗暴,但我觉得他是个顽强的孩子。到处都是麻烦,经常被卷入各种各样的事情中。自己长大的佛罗里达,简直就像威廉·高丁《苍蝇之王》一样,是一个沼泽地。黑暗,拼命地活着。和作为爱和和平的战士而活动的现在的我们的生活形成鲜明对比(笑)。那个时候,我是个谜,但是用工具和球棒破坏玩具,用半夜拿着的灯泡的热量融化它们,制作出奇怪的塑料块。

TURY作为孩童时代的记忆最鲜明地记得的是,在自己长大的古巴和哥哥一起创作。使用后院发现的东西制作出精心制作的构造物,以此为基础展开了关于鰤鱼拼贴画的故事。

——个展“海洋-寺庙of the Sacred Heart”专注于以想象中的神话“海洋”为主题的新绘画和雕塑。这是从什么样的想法中诞生的呢?

SAM“海洋”是一系列神话,表达了一种新的自然主义思想,以使人们、自己和生活的地球的关系更加亲密。这个概念是从想创造一个能说明我们至今为止做过的事情、将人们联系在一起的新神话的想法中产生的。也就是说,把所有宗教、各国以前就有的想法全部抛弃,让人们回到自己身上,让母亲的自然和起源的众神回归,把开始的宗教改成了现代风格。原本,我们是从海里来的,几乎都是由海水成分构成的,有像波浪一样鼓动的心脏。

TURY将地球的名字改为“Ocean”,并致力于改写我们居住的地方被称为地球的历史。我觉得现代的历史比起自然更注重人类。原本地球是蓝色的,作为茶色的行星是不存在的。同样,我想在比自己更存在的生态系统中,提出符合伦理的新框架的神话。为了重新审视我们现在所在的地方和未来,与其说是把自然作为整体来看待,不如说是回归整体的想法,包含着想要将人类的力量和动态与地球重新调整的想法。

——FriendsWithYou的主题和作品中流传的动画主义,在以亚洲为首的日本也是自古以来就渗透的思想,是否也有受到亚洲文化影响的部分呢?

SAM动漫主义,即所有事物都有灵魂的想法,是我们的主要想法,它是所有作品主题的核心,我喜欢用这个想法来玩。日本对我们来说是一个巨大的灵感。使用符号和角色唤起情感,激发人们的方法是我们创作作品的核心。

TURY虽然受到了很深的影响,但就动物主义而言,它深受原始信仰体系的约鲁巴教的影响,植根于阿尼主义,如母亲在古巴实践的西非宗教,自然现象。

——两位不分担角色,而是按照字面意思一起制作作品,第一步是什么样的呢?

有时从TURY对话开始,有时会一起坐着开始画画。我们都在进行实际对话和视觉交流。比如说,“你读过这个神话吗?”对于共享各自的想法,一起混合想法这样的创造浪潮,习惯和亲近是很了不起的事情,共同工作非常有趣。正是两个人跳进海里,看着流到什么程度的感觉。

因为SAM 2人都有不枯萎的灵感源泉(笑)。有时会把读神话、看艺术、人生中经历的事情、冥想、实验、研究中得到的想法等带入作品中。和自己一样强大的艺术家一起工作,就能实现还没有完全成形的想法和理想。一起做的话,可以创造出魔法般的短语,最大限度地表现自己内心的东西,或者用意想不到的方法,将梦想具体化,我觉得真是太棒了。

——顺便说一下,你知道是怎么完成的吗?　有意见分歧吗?

SAM两人都能接受的时间是完成的瞬间。如果不认为我们喜欢,就不能把它送到世界。经常会遇到只有我们无法理解的困难状况。那个时候,互相拿出意见,推进想法,把那个做成形式。总是有各种各样的想法在漩涡中,像这样作为一个美丽的展示完成,真的是令人兴奋的冒险啊。

TURY当然要讨论是否对自己来说有价值的表达。正因为有了热情,有时也会变得感情用事。但是,我切实感受到,花了23年时间,我能够更加积极地互相尊重对方的意见,找到构筑新事物的对话方法。

——失去自信或者撞到墙上的时候,是怎么克服的呢?

代表TURY的模样,努力。我认为这是最简单的应对方法之一。你需要习惯失败和不完美的状态。致力于一般的方向,只是每天向前看,竭尽全力,洗澡,吃饭,锻炼,直到顺利为止再做。带着信念去思考想法,会有很大的想法。所以,我认为失败的概念是不存在的。我认为在失败之前可以获得知识,所有的相互作用都值得。

SAM我们永远不会让事情变得完美。因为粗糙的部分,丑陋的部分,有时人性,不可思议的地方才有美丽。随着事物的数字化,变得完美美丽,人们会被肮脏、粗糙或丑陋的时刻吸引。

——你们两位是如何定义艺术的?

在TURY人的活动中,表现无可奈何流入的行为。

作为SAM理念和创造物提出的人类生存对话。

——什么是自由而不偏颇的表达?

SAM不要害怕,从心底创造。

TURY失败的意志。

——为什么要以身临其境的装置和游行、雕塑、绘画、动画、现场表演以及与品牌的合作等多方面的领域、流派和方式进行表现活动?

为了制作TURY强有力的艺术,作为艺术家必须一个人呆在摄影棚里,这样的想法一直认为是过去的东西。为了创造现代和未来的新艺术,需要更强大的头脑。因此,将艺术家、工程师、哲学家和其他合作者卷入其中的想法,对于总是两个人合作的我们来说,自然而然又容易做。另外,个人艺术家是唯一一个创造优秀艺术的存在的想法,已经是一个小神话了。

从SAM美术的世界,到小孩子,学院的人和简单的人,我想接触所有人。无论是谁的想法还是梦想,都欢迎你。不同类型的作品是与不同地方的人们相遇的工具。即使没有直接合作,参与我们社区的人们也对艺术多样化和进一步发展感兴趣。而且,我们所有的故事都有一个团结的纽带,可以恢复力量。这就是“海洋”想法的源泉。我们不仅是故事的创造者,也是故事中的艺术家。创造新世界,星球的是所有艺术家,也是我们的故事。艺术家有想法,这个想法也有力量。因此,我相信只要我们合作,我们就能做出真正强大的东西。

——您实际体验过PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO的展览会的感想如何?

TURY超出了预期。我觉得这真的是一个真正的空间。我们想传达的,在这个世界上没有意义,但是确实是这个世界的东西,在某种神秘的另一个时空中,传达了这样的感觉,我感到非常幸福。我们一直试图创造的是令人难忘的体验,但我相信这次展览肯定会带来这一点。

SAM最近几年的作品聚集在这个空间里,能在能成为美丽体验的地方真的很开心。亲眼目睹了各自融入的想法和想法,以及为了创造它所需要的所有事情,以及将其合为一体而产生的力量和感动,充满了喜悦和爱。

——欣赏的人们有什么反馈会很高兴呢?

体验过TURY艺术的人的反馈非常有趣。对我们来说,艺术几乎就像实验一样,在尝试想法的同时,看看人们的感受、共鸣以及如何触动心灵。因此,有反馈的话,可以更加注意它是什么样的。关注人们与艺术的接触实际上是我们艺术的重要组成部分。虽然有“关系性的美学”这个词,但是鉴赏者来到PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO,通过与作品对话而产生的体验才是我们思考的真正艺术。

SAM是的。我们在网上也有投稿,但是看了那个的人实际上是怎么想的,我不知道。因此,当人们亲眼目睹艺术并向我们展示他们真正体验艺术和感受时,我总是很高兴。好的、坏的、丑陋的、任何感情都是最好的反馈。

——这次展示时,涩谷PARCO有哪些印象呢?

SAM东京和涩谷的标志性地标PARCO,我非常喜欢!　很高兴有机会让您体验我们的艺术,我们非常感谢NANZUKA及其家人,他们非常聪明、热情和支持我们。

在TURY更新之前,我已经来过好几次了。我在画廊和博物馆也看到了许多精彩的作品。PARCO一直是一个充满刺激的地方,证明产品需要艺术和设计,并推动这些产品的制作。

——这次来日本,打算怎样度过东京呢?

融入TURY东京这个城市,享受在这个地方的乐趣,吃很多好吃的东西,也想去美术馆。对于来自位于地球另一边的国家的我们来说,知道有什么样的文化运动是非常令人兴奋和有趣的。

我想去SAM前几天去世的田名网敬一先生的大规模个展“田名网敬一记忆的冒险”。见到他真的很开心,也很喜欢他。森美术馆的“路易丝·资产乔瓦展:从地狱回来的地方说,太棒了”也预定去。这次从洛杉矶来了很多作为同志的朋友,如果能和他们一起看各种各样的东西的话我会很开心的。在日本,有很多好吃的东西,想接触日本文化,再得到灵感。

FriendsWithYou, an art collective based in Los Angeles. Spreading their unifying message of 'Magic,' 'Luck,' and 'Friendship,' they have been creating interactive art that fosters new human connections. Their solo exhibition 'Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart' was held at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO.

In this exhibition, they’ve created a fictional myth called 'The Book of OCEAN,' which commemorates the heroes who devoted their lives to the algorithmic war to liberate humans from the various devices that control us and return us to nature. Beneath the pop, KAWAII, and playful world they show lies a message: to remind us of Earth’s original form as a planet of oceans and to unite all living beings that inhabit it. Samuel Albert Borkson (referred to as SAM), born in Florida, and Arturo Sandoval III (referred to as TURY), born in Cuba, discuss their works that are completed through the experience of the viewers.

——Since FriendsWithYou started in 2002, could you share how the two of you met and how your collaboration began?

SAM We met through friends by going to raves in the 90s and founded FriendsWithYou as a conceptual art movement. In the beginning, it was kind of our hippie movement that epitomized the main tenets of the rave scene, PLUR: peace, love, unity, respect. We wanted to create new modes of spirituality for modern times. The idea of using art as a tool for healing, as in the term “psychomagic” coined by Alejandro Jodorowsky, has also been central to our creative process. We invoked the power of the universe to be conspiring in our favor and with the idea that everything in the universe is FriendsWithYou. And our goal was to battle the looming isolation we felt by creating healing art.

TURY Twenty-three years have passed since then and we are still working together. We started out by collaboration on paintings, but we didn’t yet have a clear methodology, so we began making soft sculptures, which we sold as plush toys. Then we discovered that those were in turn imbued with magical powers as a way of helping the owners manifest their own potential.

——What do you value in the creation of your work?

TURY I think one of the things that makes our work interesting is to use childlike figuration and mannerism to communicate deeper messages. Our stance as artists is that we don't let go of the child's wonder and to be inspired by the world. We’ve always resisted the notion that to be a functional member of society, you must not have your sense of wonder and excitement about life. It is something important that we have always tried to hold onto as our own way of coping with our existence and we want to bring it to the world, that it's okay to feel whimsy, happy, excited, wanting to play and being thrilled all day long.

SAM Growing up in Florida, I had a pretty rough childhood and TURY also had a lot of adversity and both of us had to leave home at the age of14. As young kids, we had to grow up quicker than others. Maybe that's why, now, in our adult life, we have left a lot of space to play, dreaming, looking at the blue sky, and thinking, something that can be examples and models for the rest of the world. We believe that play is holy, that wonder and dreaming like children is freedom, and that everyone has a huge dream inside of them, so we incorporate love, hope, curiosity, and play as the main ingredients of every artwork.

——Please tell us a little about each of your childhoods and also about your first memory of experiencing the joy of creation?

SAM I think I was pretty violent, but I was tough. There was a lot of trouble, always involved in all sorts of them. I grew up in Florida, which was kind of a swamp, like William Golding's “Lord of the Flies”. It was dark time and I was just trying to survive. It's a stark contrast to our lives today, where we are active warriors for love and peace. In those days, strangely enough, I would break toys with tools and bats and melt them together with the heat of a light bulb I had in the middle of the night to make strange plastic blobs.

TURY The most vivid childhood memories of creation were with my brother in Cuba, where I was raised. We would build these elaborate constructions in the backyard with found objects and developed an entire story line about the bricolages.

——Your solo exhibition “Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart” focuses on new paintings and sculptures based on the imaginary myth “Ocean”. Could you tell us about the ideas that inspired these works and how they developed?

SAM “Ocean” is a series of myths that represent a neo-naturalistic idea to bring people closer to their relationship with themselves and our living planet. The idea of “Ocean” came from us with a desire to create a new mythology that would unite people in a way that would explain what we have been doing the whole time. In other words, we are putting a modern spin on the origins of religion, focusing on beginnings, which is to throw out all previous ideas from all religions and countries and bring humans back to ourselves, back to Mother Nature and the gods of our origin. To begin with, we come from the sea, we are mostly made of seawater, and we have a heart that beats like a wave.

TURY It is also an effort to correct and rewrite the history of calling the earth we live on to “Ocean”. I feel that modern history prioritizes humans over nature. In the first place, the earth is blue, and there was never a brown planet, was there? In the same way, we wanted to present the myth of a new framework that aligns with our ethics in an ecosystem that goes beyond its current understanding. In order to rethink where we are and what the future holds, we wanted to return to a more holistic view of nature as a whole and realign human power dynamics with the planet.

——Animism, a theme that runs through FriendsWithYou's work, seems to resonate with Asian culture, including Japan. How do you think this culture has influenced you both?

SAM It has been a huge inspiration—the idea of animism, that everything has a soul and that the universe is acting in your favor, is at the heart of our main idea, the core of all our work, and we love playing with this idea. Japan has also been a great inspiration to us. Using symbols and characters to evoke emotions and inspire people is at the core of what we do.

TURY Although deeply influenced, when it comes to animism, I am very much influenced by Yoruba religion of West Africa, which my mother practiced in Cuba, and a very primitive belief system rooted in an animistic view of natural phenomenon, etc.

——The two of you literally work together on a piece of art without sharing roles, what is the first step like?

TURY Sometimes it starts with a conversation, other times we sit down and start drawing. We communicate both verbally and visually. We share references and ask each other, for example, “Have you heard about this myth?” And so on. It is amazing to get so comfortable with our creative wave of sharing each idea and remixing ideas together, and the collaborative process is very interesting. It is exactly the feeling of jumping into the ocean and seeing where the currents take you.

SAM Yes, it is. We both come with very fertile spring of inspiration. Each of us may bring to the work new myths we have read, art we have seen, experiences we have had in life, thoughts we have had from meditation, from experiments and research, etc. Working with another artist as powerful as myself allows me to realize ideas and visions that aren’t fully formed. It is wonderful that together, we can create new magical phrases and bring out the fullest expression of what’s inside us, often manifesting dreams in unexpected ways.

——By the way, how do you know the work is finished? Do you sometimes have disagreements?

SAM When we both like it because we both have to love it for it to go out into the world. Sometimes we run into difficult situations that we can’t figure it out on our own. In those cases, we push each other sharing ideas and mold them. So it's always an exciting adventure to see all the different ideas swirl together to create this beautiful show.

TURY Of course there are arguments where we try to express what is valuable to us. Sometimes we get emotional because we're passionate about it. But I feel that over the course of 23 years, we have found a way to talk about things in a more positive and mutually respectful way that builds something new.

——When you have lost confidence or hit a wall, how have you overcome it?

TURY I feel like showing up and trying is the one of the easiest ways to deal with that. And you have to get comfortable with failing and not being perfect. We are committed to a general direction: just be positive every day, show up, do your best, shower, eat dinner, work out, and try again until it works out. Having faith in the commitment to an idea leads to bigger ideas. That's why I don't believe in the concept of failure. We gain knowledge beyond failure, and we see value in every interaction.

SAM We don't always try to make things perfect. Because there is beauty in rough edges, ugliness, sometimes in humanity, and in strangeness. As things become more digitized, perfect, and beautiful, I think people will be attracted to things that are messy, have rough edges, and show moments of ugliness.

——How do you define art?

TURY Any human activity that channels what is undeniable to our will.

SAM Living dialogue of humanity presented as these ideas and creations.

——What do you believe is necessary for free and unbiased artistic expression?

SAM Just create from your heart with no fear!

TURY The will to fail.

——Why you work in a wide variety of fields, genres, and methods, including immersive installations, parades, sculptures, paintings, animations, live performances, and collaborations with brands?

TURY I have always thought that the idea that to make powerful art, an artist must be alone in the studio is outdated. In order to create truly modern and futuristic art, you need an even more powerful brain. So the idea of involving other artists, engineers, philosophers, and other collaborators was being a natural and doable form for us, as we have always collaborated together. I also think that the idea that artist as a solo are the only ones who create great art is also now a bit of a myth.

SAM We want to touch the whole world from the fine art to everyone, from small children, to the most academics, to the most humble or simple people.". Everyone is welcome into our ideas and dreams. So different types of works reach people in different ways. Even if we are not collaborating directly, those who join our community are equally interested in diversifying and pushing further their art works. And there is a unifying thread that return the power to all of our stories. That is a big part of the idea for “Ocean”. We are not only creators, we are artists inside of the story. And it is all artist and our stories that creates a new world, a new planet. Artists have ideas, and those ideas have power. So I believe that if we work together we can make something really powerful.

——How was the experience of your solo exhibition at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO?

TURY Super excited this looks amazing it's beyond our expectations. It’s beyond our expectations and a truly magical space. I felt the ethereal other time and space, which doesn't make sense in this world, but it definitely is of this world, that feeling wanted to convey. We always aim for creating a memorable experience, and we are confident that this exhibition will definitely bring that.

SAM I am so happy to be able to be see this space where all of our works from the past few years come together to becoming a beautiful experience. I'm so proud of us and what we've made and when I see it together and witness the power, all the ideas and feelings that go into each piece and all that it takes for us to create it, it really fills me with joy and love.

——What do you think is the best feedback from the people who view your work?

TURY We always find it fascinating to hear how people experience our art. For us, art is almost like an experiment, trying out ideas and seeing how people feel, how they relate to it, how it sits with them. So when we get feedback, we can pay even more attention to what it looks like. Focusing on how people interact with art is a huge part of our art. There is a term called “relational aesthetics,” and we think real art is an actual experience created when viewers come to PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO and interact with the artwork.

SAM Yeah. We post our works online, but we cannot know how the people who see them actually experience. So it is always nice when people who see our art and experience them express to us what they feel. The good, the bad, the ugly, any emotion is the best feedback.

——What impressions do you have of Shibuya PARCO?

SAM We love PARCO, a definitive landmark of Tokyo and Shibuya! We are so happy about the opportunity for people to get experience our art here and we are also very grateful to NANZUKA family who are amazingly smart, kind and supportive of us.

TURY We have visited PARCO so many times even before it’s renewal. I have seen many great works in the galleries and museums, and PARCO has always been an inspiring place that proves that products need art and design, and encourages the creation of such.

——Do you have any anecdotes about this trip to Japan?

TURY I plan to blend in with the city of Tokyo, enjoy being here, eat lots of good food, and visit museums. For those of us who come from countries on opposite sides of the world, it is very exciting and interesting to know how the culture operates.

SAM We are planning to go to “Keiichi Tanaami: Adventure of Memory,” a large-scale solo exhibition by Keiichi Tanaami, who recently passed away. We were really happy to meet him and loved him so much. We also thinking about going to “Louise Bourgeois: I have been to hell and back. And let me tell you, it was wonderful” at the Mori Art Museum. This time many of our friends came from L.A., so we will hang along and show them new things. We will enjoy delicious foods in Japan, and hope to be inspired again by its culture.